Parent Revolution in Georgia’s HB 123?: I Don’t Think So

Today I received a letter from Ryan Donohue, Deputy Director Advocacy Director of  Parent Revolution informing that the Georgia House of Representatives passed HB 123, the “Parent & Teacher Empowerment Act.”  It is actually the Parent Trigger bill that you have all heard about, especially if you saw or read about the movie Won’t Back […]

Boxed In: How the NGSS Impedes Science Teaching

The major journals of the National Science Teachers Association (NSTA) have published articles featuring and explaining to science teachers the nature of the Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS).  The journals include The Science Teacher, Science Scope and Science and Children.  For the past several issues, each journal has published articles that deal with different aspects […]

Online Communities of Practice: Lessons from Yahoo

No doubt you’ve read the news reports telling us that Marissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo, informed all Yahoo employees that they could no longer work at home. There were many people who felt that Mayer did not understand the value of having employees work at home. Some employees were outraged that they could no longer […]

The Common Core, Lightning Rod or Reform?

The Common Core State Standards (CCSS) in mathematics and English language arts are set to be implemented in many states across the country next year.  The CCSS will be the content basis for national computerized tests being developed by two consortia, The Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers (PARCC) and Smarter Balanced Assessments. […]

Bill Moyers Interviews "Activist" Zack Kopplin About Science Teaching

Zack Kopplin is an American science education activist.  While he was a high school student at Baton Rouge Magnet High School, the Louisiana legislature passed the Louisiana Science Education Act  signed by Governor Bobby Jindal.  Zack Kopplin, who is now a history major at Rice University was very surprised that Governor Jindal signed this anti-science […]

Bill Moyers Interviews “Activist” Zack Kopplin About Science Teaching

Zack Kopplin is an American science education activist.  While he was a high school student at Baton Rouge Magnet High School, the Louisiana legislature passed the Louisiana Science Education Act  signed by Governor Bobby Jindal.  Zack Kopplin, who is now a history major at Rice University was very surprised that Governor Jindal signed this anti-science […]

Fordham Report on Next Generation Science Standards Lacks Credibility

On January 29, the Thomas Fordham Institute published a report, “Commentary & Feedback on the Next Generation Science Standards (Commentary).  Nine people wrote the report, none of whom are “experts” in the field of science education.  Yes, most of them have Ph.D’s in science, but they lack the experiential and content knowledge of science education, science […]

The Neoconservative Drive for Common Standards in Math and Science

For the past two decades there has been a drive to create a common set of standards in math and science (and English Language Arts).  The enterprise is well-funded, and supported not only by the U.S. Department of Education, but by corporate and philanthropic America to the extent that the initiative is pushing ahead at […]

Enough is Enough: Abating the Pursuit of Test Score Growth

Why are we so hung up on making sure students’ test scores rise, year after year? Is this a sustainable and humanistic approach to educating children and youth? Is using the metric of competency-based test scores a valid measure of student learning and a convincing appraisal of teaching? This week Illinois raised the “cut score” […]

Clueless in Atlanta; Not So in Seattle

Maureen Downey is the education blogger at Get Schooled on the Atlanta Journal-Journal (AJC) website, and writes occasional education editorials for the newspaper. In her post today, she wonders why the teachers in Seattle are protesting by refusing to administer a test they are required to give three times per year to all students in […]

Whose Next Generation of Science Standards?

The Next Generation Science Standards are on the web for all of us to view and critique until January 29th.  According to Achieve, the developers of the standards, they will use the feedback to revise last version of the science standards, to be published in March, 2013. The new science standards are the scientific and science […]

The Next Generation Science Standards: In the Service of the STEM Imperative or Students?

The second draft of the Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS) was released this week, and you can check it out and give feedback here. Millions of dollars are being spent to write the new science standards. And it will cost even more to carry out them in the Nation’s schools. Why new standards at this time? […]

Dream Document: The Next Generation Science Standards

Achieve, Inc., a corporate sponsored non-profit company, uploaded the 2nd draft of the Next Generation Science Standards (NGSS) on its website for review until January 29, 2013.  A final version will be uploaded in March, 2013. For many educators, the NGSS are just what the doctor ordered to improve science teaching in the U.S.  In […]

The Power of School Music Programs

Guest Post By Melissa Walker, Executive Director of JazzHouseKids,  and Peter Smagorinsky, Distinguished Research Professor of English Education at the University of Georgia.  This article appeared on Maureen Downey’s Get Schooled Blog, Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Public schools, in general, have become incriminated in the public mind for having failed society. They must be re-envisioned, restructured, reassessed, and […]

The Cooperative-Communal Classroom–>Insights from Nature

Cooperative-communal classrooms are aligned with fundamental ideas that have been formulated from nature.  Cooperation, empathy, mutual aid, and the interdisciplinary nature of the biosphere are fundamental concepts that are implicit in cooperative-communal classrooms. Each has its origin in nature. The rationale for establishing cooperative-communal classrooms can be linked to the theory of evolution by Charles […]

The Cooperative-Communal Classroom–>Insights from Nature

Cooperative-communal classrooms are aligned with fundamental ideas that have been formulated from nature.  Cooperation, empathy, mutual aid, and the interdisciplinary nature of the biosphere are fundamental concepts that are implicit in cooperative-communal classrooms. Each has its origin in nature. The rationale for establishing cooperative-communal classrooms can be linked to the theory of evolution by Charles […]

Why Cooperative-Communal Classrooms Trump Competitive-Corporate Classrooms?

There are a lot of people in the U.S. who think that the only way you can decide whether students learn is with a test.  In fact, Jeb Bush, former Governor of Florida, has decided to get involved in education in Texas.  Being a guru on testing, he backs the State of Texas Assessments of Academic […]

Why Cooperative-Communal Classrooms Trump Competitive-Corporate Classrooms?

There are a lot of people in the U.S. who think that the only way you can decide whether students learn is with a test.  In fact, Jeb Bush, former Governor of Florida, has decided to get involved in education in Texas.  Being a guru on testing, he backs the State of Texas Assessments of Academic […]

Race to the Top Results are In: 16 Winners, More than 300 Losers

The Race to the Top continues with the announcement that 16 educational organizations including charter organizations, urban schools, and consortia, will share about $400 million.  According to the U.S. Department of Education website, 16 applicants, representing 55 school districts in 11 states and D.C.–have won the 2012 Race to the Top-District competition.  The $400 million […]

Education Secretary Duncan on the TIMSS Results: We're Being Out-Educated & Out-Competed

If you go over to the U.S. Department of Education website, you will find the Secretary Arne Duncan’s statement on the release of the 2011 TIMSS and PIRLS assessment.  You can read it online here, and I’ve copied it and posted it below.  Highlighted (my own) words describe the essence of Mr. Duncan’s view of […]

Education Secretary Duncan on the TIMSS Results: We’re Being Out-Educated & Out-Competed

If you go over to the U.S. Department of Education website, you will find the Secretary Arne Duncan’s statement on the release of the 2011 TIMSS and PIRLS assessment.  You can read it online here, and I’ve copied it and posted it below.  Highlighted (my own) words describe the essence of Mr. Duncan’s view of […]

In the Aftermath of the Newtown Tragedy, an Education Advocate asks the President: Has Rampart Competition Undermined Civility and Democratic Ideals?

Guest Post: Ed Johnson, Advocate for Quality Public Education, Atlanta, Georgia. Ed Johnson consults as Quality Information Solutions, Inc., with a commitment to human social and cultural systems to receive quality information from information systems for the continual improvement of life, work, and play. His commitment extends to advocating the transformation of K-12 public education systems to […]

TIMSS: Always Claiming the Grass is Greener on the Other Side of the Globe

International science and environmental education have been a major focus of my professional work, and so when results on international comparisons are released by TIMSS (Math and Science, PIRLS (Reading), or PISA(Math, Reading & Science), I am eager to write about what these results mean. On this website there have been many posts devoted to […]

TIMSS: Always Claiming the Grass is Greener on the Other Side of the Globe

International science and environmental education have been a major focus of my professional work, and so when results on international comparisons are released by TIMSS (Math and Science, PIRLS (Reading), or PISA(Math, Reading & Science), I am eager to write about what these results mean. On this website there have been many posts devoted to […]

Georgia's Movement Toward the Corporatization of Higher Education

Laura Diamond reported December 13th in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Newspaper that a new formula will be used to fund colleges and universities in Georgia staring in 2015.  The new formula, approved the Higher Education Funding Commission, will be the first step toward the corporatization of higher education in Georgia.  Scan the “wordle” that I created […]

Georgia’s Movement Toward the Corporatization of Higher Education

Laura Diamond reported December 13th in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Newspaper that a new formula will be used to fund colleges and universities in Georgia staring in 2015.  The new formula, approved the Higher Education Funding Commission, will be the first step toward the corporatization of higher education in Georgia.  Scan the “wordle” that I created […]

The Battle for Control of Higher Education in Florida

Florida Republican lawmakers, including the Governor, are setting their sights on extending the corporate-driven mode of education that now dominates K-12 education, to higher education.  Indeed, with their strong business backgrounds they want to exert their expertise by having universities offer a $10,000 Bachelor’s degree and decide which degrees are of most worth.   I […]

Is it Simply a Question of Time?

In the last post, I reported that schools in five states plan to increase the school year in 40 schools by as much as 300 hours.  Although there is some evidence to show that learning is connected in some ways to time, the truth is that the concept of time is a rather complicated concept. […]

Students to Spend More Time in School: Is this a Sentence?

The Associated Press reported that five states will add at least 300 hours of time to the school year in program that will involve about 40 schools.  Is a longer day in school a good thing?  Will it be more of the same, that is teaching to the test, or will we see students set […]

How do You Defeat an Army of Determined Educators? You Don't?

Guest Post by Anthony Cody This post was originally published on Anthony’s blog Living in Dialog.  Follow him on Twitter at @AnthonyCod. The election of 2012 was a tough one for some who consider themselves “reformers” of education. Michael Petrilli, of the Hoover and Fordham Institutes wrote yesterday, in an op-ed that appeared in the Charlotte Observer, that “Teachers unions remain […]

How do You Defeat an Army of Determined Educators? You Don’t?

Guest Post by Anthony Cody This post was originally published on Anthony’s blog Living in Dialog.  Follow him on Twitter at @AnthonyCod. The election of 2012 was a tough one for some who consider themselves “reformers” of education. Michael Petrilli, of the Hoover and Fordham Institutes wrote yesterday, in an op-ed that appeared in the Charlotte Observer, that “Teachers unions remain […]

Babel from The Right: Truth, Justice, & Which Way

There are millions of people who deny the scientific truth that the Earth is 4.55 Billion years old.   They insist that it no more than 10,000 years old.  In poll of U.S. adults, 40% did not accept the theory of evolution as a valid explanation for the creation of life on earth.  Instead they […]

Babel from The Right: Truth, Justice, & Which Way

There are millions of people who deny the scientific truth that the Earth is 4.55 Billion years old.   They insist that it no more than 10,000 years old.  In poll of U.S. adults, 40% did not accept the theory of evolution as a valid explanation for the creation of life on earth.  Instead they […]

Why Are We Surprised About Senator Rubio's Concept of Geological History?

You would think that a United States Senator would have at least a rudimentary knowledge of geology.  Presumably the Senator, who is on the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, must use knowledge of science to deal with some of the issues this committee tackles, especially the subcommittee of Science & Space, of […]

Why Are We Surprised About Senator Rubio’s Concept of Geological History?

You would think that a United States Senator would have at least a rudimentary knowledge of geology.  Presumably the Senator, who is on the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, must use knowledge of science to deal with some of the issues this committee tackles, especially the subcommittee of Science & Space, of […]

Hip-Hop Culture & Science Teaching: Progressive Education in Action

I’ve written several posts on this blog about Professor Christopher Emdin, Professor of Science Education, Teachers College, Columbia University in New York City. Dr. Emdin has worked for years in New York City schools with urban youth to help teachers change the way they work with their students to bring real meaning to the learning […]

Hip-Hop Culture & Science Teaching: Progressive Education in Action

I’ve written several posts on this blog about Professor Christopher Emdin, Professor of Science Education, Teachers College, Columbia University in New York City. Dr. Emdin has worked for years in New York City schools with urban youth to help teachers change the way they work with their students to bring real meaning to the learning […]

Why Education Must Be Public & Not Privatized

Education needs to be in the public domain, and citizens need to fight to make sure that the slow creep of privatization does not turn into an avalanche. The democratic values that are the centerpiece of our society have been under assault, especially with the rise of the extreme conservative movement that began with Barry […]

Why Education Must Be Public & Not Privatized

Education needs to be in the public domain, and citizens need to fight to make sure that the slow creep of privatization does not turn into an avalanche. The democratic values that are the centerpiece of our society have been under assault, especially with the rise of the extreme conservative movement that began with Barry […]

Practicing What They Preach: Science Teacher Educators Return to School

In a forthcoming book, 25 science teacher educators describe their experiences after returning to teach students in K-12 public schools and informal settings.  Science Teacher Educators as K-12 Teachers: Practicing What We Teach was edited by Michael Dias, professor of biology and science education, Kennesaw State University (Georgia), Charles J. Eich, professor of science education, […]

Will Progressive Education Be On the Post Election Reform Table?

Will Progressive Education Be On the Post Election Reform Table?  Many American’s were thrilled with the re-election of Barack Obama.  I am one of them.  Yet, there are many who are concerned about the direction of education under a second term Obama administration.  I am one of them, too. Years ago I read President Obama’s first […]

The Debate We Should Have Had: Science, Climate and the Next Four Years

Note:  I just received this update from ScienceDebate’s Shawn Otto reminding us of the following debate on climate science on Thursday, November 1 in D.C. The Debate We Should Have Had: Science, Climate and the Next Four Years Featuring Obama campaign surrogate Kevin Knobloch and former Republican congressman and Delaware governor Mike Castle. Moderated by ScienceDebate.org‘s […]

Is the Monster Storm, Sandy, Connected to Global Warming?

The Superstorm that is slowly moving toward the Middle Atlantic and Northeast states appears to be an anomaly by most weather standards.  Or is it?  Could this superstorm be related to Global Warming?  More specifically, could it be related to the the melting of the the arctic sea ice? Climate change, according to some, has […]

Using Students for Politics & Influence Peddling

I was in Augusta, Georgia on Friday and Saturday and during the  local evening news program, there was a TV Ad supporting the Charter School Amendment on the November ballot. The TV Ad was paid for by Families for Better Public Schools, which is chaired by Georgia Republican Representative Edward Lindsey. The TV Ad features a […]

Using Students for Politics & Influence Peddling

I was in Augusta, Georgia on Friday and Saturday and during the  local evening news program, there was a TV Ad supporting the Charter School Amendment on the November ballot. The TV Ad was paid for by Families for Better Public Schools, which is chaired by Georgia Republican Representative Edward Lindsey. The TV Ad features a […]

Unleashing Charter Schools with False Claims & Lots of Money

Just as the re-election of President Obama or the election Mr. Romney is coming to a head, so is the potential of charter schools being unleashed in several states around the nation.  Georgia and Washington State have very similar laws on the November ballot, and if you live in either of these states, you know […]

Unleashing Charter Schools with False Claims & Lots of Money

Just as the re-election of President Obama or the election Mr. Romney is coming to a head, so is the potential of charter schools being unleashed in several states around the nation.  Georgia and Washington State have very similar laws on the November ballot, and if you live in either of these states, you know […]

Why Do We Promote Consumption And Not Inquiry

Why in a democracy do we promote consumption and not inquiry in science teaching?  Why are we so possessed to have teachers cover the ground and not helping students uncover their connection to the world around them? The second public draft of The Next Generation Science Standards will be released this December by Achieve, the organization […]

Congressional Leaders Refuse to Answer Science Questions

ScienceDebate.org and Scientific American asked 33 leaders of science-oriented congressional committees to respond to a set of 8 science, technology and education questions. Here is ScienceDebate.org’s public release of the results of their inquiry. FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Washington — October 16, 2012.  Americans have all heard about the scandalously anti-science comments made by certain members of […]

Be On the Right Side of History

An Essay by the Teaching Georgia Writing Collective About the Collective: The Teaching Georgia Writing Collective is a group of educators, parents, and concerned citizens who engage in public writing and public teaching about education in Georgia. Some goals of the collective include: 1) empowering educators to reclaim their workplace and professionalism, 2) empowering families to […]

Don't Let Them Pull One On US!

Did you know that the bill that passed in the Georgia Legislature and signed by the Governor to Amend the Charter School provision in the state constitution was actually written by ALEC?  Because this is an amendment to the Georgia Constitution, we citizens must approve or reject it.  You probably thought that our representatives in […]

Don’t Let Them Pull One On US!

Did you know that the bill that passed in the Georgia Legislature and signed by the Governor to Amend the Charter School provision in the state constitution was actually written by ALEC?  Because this is an amendment to the Georgia Constitution, we citizens must approve or reject it.  You probably thought that our representatives in […]

We Teach Science Not Because It Nurtures the Child's Imagination, but Because It Might Help Get a Job

Reform in science education for the past two decades is based on the ideas that American students receive an inferior education in mathematics and science, and as a result will not be able to compete for jobs in the global marketplace.  In this scenario, the purpose for teaching math and science is to get a […]

We Teach Science Not Because It Nurtures the Child’s Imagination, but Because It Might Help Get a Job

Reform in science education for the past two decades is based on the ideas that American students receive an inferior education in mathematics and science, and as a result will not be able to compete for jobs in the global marketplace.  In this scenario, the purpose for teaching math and science is to get a […]

The Charter School Euphemism

Using individualism in its extreme, American schools are becoming more and more un-democratic.  Using the euphemism of school choice, American citizens have been told over and over that public schools are a failure, and parents should have a choice in deciding schools for their children.  Charter schools are sweeping the country as the solution to the […]

Charter Schools: In Whose Interests?

Is choosing a school like choosing a brand of milk in the grocery store?  According to one politician, giving parents a choice in selecting  schools is no different than giving them a choice in buying milk.  Here is what the former Governor of Florida said about milk and charter schools: Everywhere in our lives, we get […]

Thank You, Chicago Teachers

This is a letter of Thank You to the teachers of Chicago from the Teaching Georgia Writing Collective.  The letter was initially posted on Maureen Downey’s Get Schooled website on the Atlanta Journal Constitution. The Teaching Georgia Writing Collective is a group of educators, parents, and concerned citizens who engage in public writing and public teaching about […]

A Tale of Two Cities

“It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it […]

One Size Does Not Fit All

On August 4, 2011, Nikhil Goyal, a sophomore at Syosset High School in Long Island, New York wrote and asked me answer some interview questions for a book he was writing about “transforming our 19th Century industrial model of education into a 21st Century model grounded in creativity, imagination, and project-based learning. I had no […]

In His Own Words: Obama's Progressive World View of Education

Update:  I’ve added a section at the end of the post suggested by Anthony Cody who blogs over on Living in Dialog (Education Week Teacher).  The section includes a radical quote from Obama about his view of using high-stakes tests that will surprise you. President Obama has written and talked about education from a progressive […]

In His Own Words: Obama’s Progressive World View of Education

Update:  I’ve added a section at the end of the post suggested by Anthony Cody who blogs over on Living in Dialog (Education Week Teacher).  The section includes a radical quote from Obama about his view of using high-stakes tests that will surprise you. President Obama has written and talked about education from a progressive […]

Presidential Candidates Reply to Science Debate Questions

The Presidential candidates have responded to Science Debate’s 14 questions on science and education. You can read and compare their answers at this Scientific American website. Scientific American will grade the candidate’s answers, and publish the results in October. Obama and Romney were asked questions about innovation and the economy, climate change, pandemics, energy, food, […]

8 Myths About Charter Schools

Empowered Georgia has identified 8 myths as reasons to oppose a charter school law that might go into effect in November. Is your state next in line to follow the chartered school path in Georgia at the expense of public schools–it’s parents, students, and teachers? Georgia will decide on November 6 to change the constitution permitting […]

Why is Congress Silent on Science Debates' High-Stakes Science-related Questions?

According to Shawn Otto, U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives have ignored a request from Science Debate to answer eight science policy questions.  The questions were selected from hundreds submitted by scientists, engineers, educators, and concerned citizens.  Science Debate would like to know what elected officials in Washington think about science related policy issues facing the […]

Why is Congress Silent on Science Debates’ High-Stakes Science-related Questions?

According to Shawn Otto, U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives have ignored a request from Science Debate to answer eight science policy questions.  The questions were selected from hundreds submitted by scientists, engineers, educators, and concerned citizens.  Science Debate would like to know what elected officials in Washington think about science related policy issues facing the […]

¿Is it Not Possible to Charter Teachers for a Change?

¿Is it not possible that if teachers were chartered to design curriculum and assessment methods geared to their own students they might provide an education that is closer to the lived experiences of their student?  ¿Is is possible that by enabling teachers to carry out their work as professionals the way most of them are […]

Inspiration in the Rockies

  This is a view from the YMCA of the Rockies, which I first visited in August, 1975 to attend my first conference of the Association for Humanistic Psychology (AHP). Since then I’ve been here about 15 times. But it was my attendance at the (AHP) conference that changed my outlook as a teacher at […]

Give Us Charter Schools, Or We'll Amend the Georgia Constitution

In the November 2012 election, citizens of Georgia will vote (charter school amendment) to re-establish the State Charter School Commission which will have the power to create charter schools anywhere in the state, even without local school board approval. A few days ago, Dr. John Barge, Georgia’s State School Superintendent broke ranks with the Georgia GOP […]

Give Us Charter Schools, Or We’ll Amend the Georgia Constitution

In the November 2012 election, citizens of Georgia will vote (charter school amendment) to re-establish the State Charter School Commission which will have the power to create charter schools anywhere in the state, even without local school board approval. A few days ago, Dr. John Barge, Georgia’s State School Superintendent broke ranks with the Georgia GOP […]

Do Higher Science Standards Lead to Higher Achievement?

In a recent article in Scientific American, it was suggested that the U.S. should adopt higher standards in science, and that all 50 states should adopt them. When you check the literature on science standards, the main reason for aiming for higher standards (raising the bar) is because in the “Olympics” of international academic test […]

Evolution as Design

The world is flat; astronauts did not go to the moon; and the Earth is 10,000 years old. A recent poll reported that very few people in the US accept the theory of evolution as a valid explanation for the creation of life on Earth. According to the National Center for Science Education, in a […]

Anthony Cody: Dialogue With the Gates Foundation: How Do We Build the Teaching Profession?

Guest Post by Anthony Cody Note: This is the first of five posts on the dialog between Anthony Cody and his readers, and the Gates Foundation.  This post was originally published on Anthony’s site over on Education Week Teacher.  This dialog is a major contribution to educational reform.  Anthony Cody is one of the leading […]

Anthony Cody: Dialogue With the Gates Foundation: How Do We Build the Teaching Profession?

Guest Post by Anthony Cody Note: This is the first of five posts on the dialog between Anthony Cody and his readers, and the Gates Foundation.  This post was originally published on Anthony’s site over on Education Week Teacher.  This dialog is a major contribution to educational reform.  Anthony Cody is one of the leading […]

In Math and Science, Have American students Fallen Behind?

Is science and mathematics teaching inferior to science teaching in Singapore, South Korea, and Finland?  Have American students fallen behind in math and science? In the 2008 and 2012,  Science Debate asked presidential candidates (as well as congressional candidates) why have American students fallen behind in science and mathematics and what role should the federal government […]

In Math and Science, Have American students Fallen Behind?

Is science and mathematics teaching inferior to science teaching in Singapore, South Korea, and Finland?  Have American students fallen behind in math and science? In the 2008 and 2012,  Science Debate asked presidential candidates (as well as congressional candidates) why have American students fallen behind in science and mathematics and what role should the federal government […]

Why Science is a Non-Issue in the Election?

David Gergen, Michael Lubell and Shawn Otto had a very important conversation with Ira Flatow on this week’s Science Friday about why the science debate project is critical to the country.  The discussion focused on science in the presidential debates, and looked at why asking the candidates about science is so low on the list […]

Why Science is a Non-Issue in the Election?

David Gergen, Michael Lubell and Shawn Otto had a very important conversation with Ira Flatow on this week’s Science Friday about why the science debate project is critical to the country.  The discussion focused on science in the presidential debates, and looked at why asking the candidates about science is so low on the list […]